Andrew Lee wrote: I just want to add that Pastor Prince had, on numerous occasions asked that he be taken out of the church payroll and that he depends on the generosity of the church members to bless him and his family individually but the church council had rejected his request at least three times. The council basically wants to free him to spend time studying the word of God and be available to preach to the church what the Lord had fed him with. It is only when one is sumptuously fed in the word of the Lord that he can then set out to feed others. And this is what is happening every Sunday. I agree with Magenta and Lip Kee that the best vote one can give for or against him is with your feet and your pocket. Nobody is going to criticize another for not giving to the church and nobody is going to stop one from leaving either. There are lots of other good churches in Singapore which can do with additional members anyway. Lip Kee's comment: Pastor Prince is a top notch preacher and an excellent leader of the church. The church is willing to recognize and reward him for his contribution. I don't see any issue here. I wonder why some people insist that a pastor should not enjoy a handsome salary just because he is a pastor. How many of us complain when we see: - an top notch artist fetch millions of dollars for creating art pieces; - a top notch chef earn top dollars for delivering delicious dishes of food; - a top notch speaker get rewarded handsomely for giving speeches; - a top notch writer collect huge returns from the books he writes; - a top notch leader take home a big pay check; and - a top notch sports star earn millions for excelling at his game? Then why do we begrudge a top notch preacher who impacts people's lives a $500k pay? If the church were to decide to allow Pastor Prince to be taken off its payroll, I will give an additional offering (over and above my monthly tithe) to sow into and to support pastor's ministry. So, in a sense, I am glad that pastor is on the payroll of the church. I am quite sure I am not the only person in NCC who thinks this way, or am I? :) Note: the original discussion took place in my facebook note's comment page: http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=66138097325&ref=nf  | lipkee wrote on Mar 30, '09, edited on Mar 30, '09 eatgovtrice wrote: I am not a christian. But i am saddened by what is going on in this forum. Money is something that we cant bring to our grave. Why so uptight with 500k to whoever???? Lip Kee commented: Exactly. If the $500K was paid to us or someone we love, would we be so critical or cynical? Imagine the one getting the $500k a year is your best friend or your favourite cousin. Will you be complaining and doing your best to discredit the person? Or will you be happy that someone is gifted or fortunate enough to enjoy such a financial reward? I suggest we take sometime to take an honest look into our own hearts. When I was much younger, I used to be critical or even cynical about the world and other people. Filled with angst (or rather, self-righteousness). I was young enough to know everything. I am more mellow now. I realize that when I say something about someone, many a times, what I say is more a reflection of who I am rather than who the person is. Some food for thought, perhaps? You don't have to eat it if you don't think it's good food. This is a free forum afterall. I am taking the advice to leave this forum. To those of you who have been willing to communicate openly and respectfully, thank you very much, I appreciate it. Good bye and God bless! Note: the original discussion took place in the AsiaOne forum page: http://forums.asiaone.com/showthread.php?t=18932&page=32 |
| Note:
The above was my final comment in the very "noisy" AsiaOne forum discussion thread. :)
This will also be my final comment regarding the matter in my blog here.
Let's all stay rested and blessed in Christ. Shalom. :) |
 | i agree with Lip Kee!
ya, we have a beloved Pastor Prince and we love him so much...
He has blessed us with so much in his preaching that help us to break bondages!
Praise Jesus for pastor prince! |
 | maic123 wrote on Apr 3, '09, edited on Apr 3, '09 Help me out here -
Pastor Prince did a great job of showing you Jesus
Pastor Pricne did a great hob of showing you God's work of the cross
Pastor Prince does a great job of explaining the Gospel
Thats why you love him. Fair enough.
Would that also mean that because he does such a great job, he should be paid a high salary?
In my opinion -
It is GOD, using PP, who choose to reveal Himself to people.
It is GOD, using PP, who gave wisdom, to understand the work of the Cross
It is serving GOD, that PP is teaching the gospel of Jesus Christ.
I think that if members want to give PP a love gift, because they love him, its fair.By all means do so.
However, for some NCC defenders to claim that because PP brings in 95% of church Rev, because PP is responsible for explosive growth of NCC...etc therefore $500k is peanuts, is glorifying man and not God. It is God that gave the growth, it is God that provided the members wealth, it is God that touched members hearts to give. PP is merely the instrument.
If the rational is to reward the instrument, how about the missionaries who sacrified their lives going to dangerous countries to spread the gospel, living in porvety and giving up their all for God, don't they deserve to be paid more than PP? |
| lipkee wrote on Apr 3, '09, edited on Apr 6, '09 Dear maic123,
HOW MUCH SHOULD A PASTOR BE PAID?
You asked:
"Would that also mean that because he does such a great job, he should be paid a high salary?"
Lip Kee's comment:
To be sure, I am not the one who decides Pastor Prince's salary. I don't know how his salary was decided. Maybe it is a fixed amount. Maybe it is based on the total collection by the church. I don't know.
As to how much Pastor Prince SHOULD be paid, I suppose everyone will have his own benchmark. Personally, because I received so much from his ministry, I believe he should not be paid less then some of the cabinet ministers in Singapore. But of course, this is just my personal opinion. I don't claim to represent anyone other than myself. :)
I think if I were to ask the question to 100 persons, I would probably get 101 different answers.
How much do you think he should be paid? What is your benchmark? Would you care to explain why you think your benchmark is a better one compared to mine? (For convenience sake and for the purpose of this discussion, I would use a cabinet minister's pay as the benchmark).
WHO USED THE WORD "PEANUTS" TO DESCRIBE THE PAY?
You wrote:
"However, for some NCC defenders to claim that because PP brings in 95% of church Rev, because PP is responsible for explosive growth of NCC...etc therefore $500k is peanuts..."
Lip Kee's comment:
I would appreciate it if you could let me know who was the person who used the word "peanuts"? I know I didn't. I know it's a very sensitive word. Almost a vulgar word, I would say.
GOD GIVES THE INCREASE THROUGH THE INSTRUMENT HE USES
You wrote:
"It is God that gave the growth, it is God that provided the members wealth, it is God that touched members hearts to give. PP is merely the instrument."
Lip Kee's comment:
I totally agree with you. :)
HOW ARE WE TO COMPARE THE REWARDS AMONG THE DIFFERENT SERVERS OF GOD?
You wrote:
"If the rational is to reward the instrument, how about the missionaries who sacrified their lives going to dangerous countries to spread the gospel, living in porvety and giving up their all for God, don't they deserve to be paid more than PP?"
Lip Kee's comment:
I am sorry I will not be able to give you an answer.
I respect everyone who serves God. I cherish every precious life.
But I am not the one who decides on Pastor Prince's pay check amount. I am also not the person responsible for determining the pay check (or lack of one) for the missionaries, whom I highly respect.
More importantly, I don't think it is appropriate for me to use the size of monetary reward to measure the worthiness of any servers of God.
Who am I to say that I, who serve as a caregroup leader should deserve to be blessed more than another believer who serves as an usher in church? Who am I to decide that my friend, who is a pastor of a small church in Singapore should deserve more pay than a house church leader in China?
All I can only say is that the missionaries who serve God deserve my full respect. And Pastor Prince deserves my full respect. But of course, this is just my personal opinion. I don't pretend to represent anyone other than myself. :)
Stay rested and blessed. :)
|
| maic123 wrote on Apr 3, '09, edited on Apr 3, '09 Sorry I used the word peanuts. I added the word myself to sort of summarize the meaning I thought some of the defenders of NCC was trying to convey, that 500k salary is nothing compared to what Pastor Prince has done.
Ok to be specific then -
Deacon Kang said -
"Senior Pastor Prince is the key man responsible for bringing in about 95 per cent of our church's income. I must concede that he has enriched the church and not the other way round".
Also
its policy is to 'recognise and reward key contributors to the church and Senior Pastor Prince is the main pillar of our church's growth and revenue'.
I am very uncomfortable reading this as a Christian.
I believe that God is behind all this. Pastor Prince is merely the instrument. However, in the explanation given by the church to justify his salary, the church basically is saying that Pastor Prince is "responsible" for the church income and enriched the church, so he certainly deserves that salary due to the results he is producing. I think that is wrong. It is God that produces the result. Can he do it without God? I don't have the answer.
He deserves a salary for sure. How much? I don't know.
1st Corinthian 8:11.
If we have sown spiritual seed among you, is it too much if we reap a material harvest from you?
14. In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.
However, the passage also talks about food sacrified to idols, in which Paul says, what is an idol? so what's wrong with eating food scarified to idols? -
9. Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak. 10. For if anyone with a weak conscience sees you who have this knowledge eating in an idol's temple, won't he be emboldened to eat what has been sacrificed to idols? 11. So this weak brother, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. 12. When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. 13. Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause him to fall.
32. Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God--
33. even as I try to please everybody in every way.
For I am not seeking my own good but the good of many, so that they may be saved.
11: 1. Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ.
Essentially, the way I see it, Pastor Kang deserves a salary, should be paid a salary. However, should this salary be too controversial and it causes other brothers to fall in sin, then its better not to exercise that freedom.
So it is exactly right of him to refuse the salary.
So it is my opinion that the church is incorrect to -
1. Justify his salary using the results Pastor Prince produced.
2. Insisting that he take the salary, as a result causing this controversy. Look at the asiaone forum, I do think it is stumbling some Christians and causing some to be a very poor testimony of what a born again Christian is like.
|
| lipkee wrote on Apr 3, '09, edited on Apr 6, '09 maic123 wrote: Sorry I used the word peanuts. I added the word myself to sort of summarize the meaning I thought some of the defenders of NCC was trying to convey, that 500k salary is nothing compared to what Pastor Prince has done. Lip Kee's comment: Apology accepted. :) A FEW POINTERS ON COMMUNICATING ACCURATELY Just to share some lessons I've learned about communication (from my past work experiences as a police investigator and an auditor): Always stick to the facts. Do not assume. Do not speculate. Do not allege. Do not accuse. Make sure. Seek to clarify the facts if unsure. Ask questions. Do research. Check and re-check. Stick to the facts. And when expressing a personal view or opinion, I would state so clearly. i would qualify my statement using words such as "my view", "my opinion". i would make it clear that I am NOT presenting objective facts, but subjective views and opinions. If I believe my view or opinion has the potential of being controversial, I would weigh the words I use very carefully. I would remind myself not to come across as being judgmental. I will apply the golden rule and be respectful (not diplomatic) and gentle (not soft). HOW SHOULD THE CHURCH COUNCIL RESPOND TO THE PRESS QUERY? maic123 wrote: However, in the explanation given by the church to justify his salary, the church basically is saying that Pastor Prince is "responsible" for the church income and enriched the church, so he certainly deserves that salary due to the results he is producing. I think that is wrong. It is God that produces the result. Lip Kee's comment: Please bear in mind that Deacon Matthew Kang made those statements in response to The Straits Times' query on NCC's staff salary. See the full reply here: http://www.newcreation.org.sg/aboutus/media_coverage/NCCreply_to_ST_300309.pdfNow, let's put yourself in Deacon Matthew Kang's position. The Straits Times refers you to the church's annual report and asks you about the church staff who drew an annual salary of between $500k to $550k as reported in the annual report for the financial year ended 31 March 2008. How will you respond to the query? Please bear in mind that you are representing the church, and you are talking to a secular press. Now, what would you say: "No comment"; "No specific reason"; "God told us to give that amount"? Deacon Matthew Kang had to give an explanation. And he had to give an explanation that the secular press and the public at large could understand. Wouldn't you agree? He had to make a statement. A "sensible and reasonable" one (for the secular press and the general public, not just for the church and believers). If you were in his shoe, what kind of a "sensible and reasonable" statement would you make? WOULD A MONTHLY INCOME OF $18,000 STUMBLE YOU? maic123 wrote: However, should this salary be too controversial and it causes other brothers to fall in sin, then its better not to exercise that freedom. Lip Kee's comment: Hmm...why would a salary that is "too controversial" cause other brothers to "fall in sin"? What kind of "sin" are you referring to? Would you care to explain or clarify? I suggest we take a step back and look at the bigger picture: Pastor Prince received an annual salary of around $550k from NCC in the last financial year (i.e. from April 2007 to March 2008). We do not know how much he tithed. He shared with the congregation he gives more than 10% per month. But let's assume he tithed only 10%. In that case, he would have given around $55k to the church from April 2007 to March 2008. During the period from September 2007 to February 2009, he gave to the church $563k for the building fund (Note: This was also reported in The Straits Times article, but strangely, no one seems to have taken notice of it). Now, let's assume Pastor Prince received a similar amount of salary and tithed 10% of that amount for the financial year ended March 2009 , he would have received $550k and given $55k for the period from April 2008 to March 2009. So, based on the assumptions above, over the past two financial years, Pastor Prince would have received a total of $1.1m from NCC, and given $673k back to NCC, giving him a net income from NCC of $427k over two years. This works out to be around $213.5k per year (or a monthly income of $17.8k). Is this amount still considered too high, or reasonable, or too low? Would this still be "too controversial"? Would it still cause other brothers "to fall into sin"? WHO HAVE BEEN STUMBLED, TO WHAT EXTENT HAVE THEY BEEN STUMBLED, AND WHAT I THINK WE SHOULD DO FOR THEM maic123 wrote: So it is my opinion that the church is incorrect to - 1. Justify his salary using the results Pastor Prince produced. 2. Insisting that he take the salary, as a result causing this controversy. Look at the asiaone forum, I do think it is stumbling some Christians and causing some to be a very poor testimony of what a born again Christian is like. Lip Kee's comment: Thanks for sharing your opinion. I acknowledge that there are quite a lot of people talking about this matter. I also acknowledge that there are Christians who have expressed strong views about the pay Pastor Prince received, and some of the Christians (supporters as well as detractors of NCC) who were involved in the public discussion (e.g. in the AsiaOne forum) had displayed what I believe many of us would consider as immature, irresponsible and un-gentlemanly behavior. But exactly how many Christians have really been stumbled, and to what extent they have been stumbled, I do not know. Do you personally know of any Christian who has suffered a crisis of faith, or left church, or abandon God because of the news report? If so, would you care to bring them to my attention or the attention of the church, so that we could help them, counsel them, or pray for them? Regardless of whether we are able to identify the ones who have been stumbled, my suggestion is that we pray for them, and trust God to strengthen their faith. :) Shalom. |
 | Beware of Wolves in sheep clothings. They will use false teaching to feed the selfish desires of Christian or fake Christian who does not love the Truth but chose to have itchy ears to give themselves to false doctrine so that their desires can be met. These False preachers are from the Greed Sect in Apostle Paul days, They preached that Godliness a means to financial gains. Today prosperity teaching is nothing new but in the olden days the greed sect has already used "Godliness a means to financial gains" as an ideal.
Whether you love the pastor anot is not the key issue. The Key issue is the Pastor teaching correct doctrine. Do not deceive yourself. Most prosperity church members like to deceive themselves that prosperity teaching is a good doctrine and that God wants to make Christian get rich. This is FALSE and there are bible proves againist it. Pls see below and repent. I repent now of such wrong teachings and choose to embrace the doctrine of Godliness.
Guys the bible predicts some would wanders from the faith for the sake of money. Paul told Timothy that to be Godly and Content is greatest gain and not financial gain which cannot bte compared. See what Paul said and you know why I do not agreed with today propersity teaching which quotes alot of place and constantly abuse by pastor who want to make money out of the gospel. In fact the bible predicts that false teachers would try to make money from the gospel by preaching doctrines that appeal to one's desire. pls see below what Paul said in 1 Timothy 6:3-
3 If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, 4 he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions, 5 and constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. 6 But godliness actually is a means of great gain when accompanied by contentment. 7 For we have brought nothing into the world, so we cannot take anything out of it either. 8 If we have food and covering, with these we shall be content.9 But those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a snare and many foolish and harmful desires which plunge men into ruin and destruction. 10 For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.
If pastor is REAL man of GOD and does not betray Christianity, he should repent and decreas salary at once and not give excuses and blame others and see first. he mentioned that he will see first. It is sad as he does not have a good name now as he have taken 500k for a few yrs, he is a millionaire pastor, unlike Paul and Peter, issiah, who have their head behead, body sawn apart. whether he is real man of GOD, God knows. God can use even a fake pastor to heal pple. If a fake pastor on the way to hell shouts: "TRUST GOD for your healing" and People had the Faith, God will still heal the people but the Pastor is still fake(greedy for money/fifthy Lucre) on the way to hell. |
| lipkee wrote on Apr 5, '09, edited on Apr 6, '09 "FALSE" TEACHING AND THE SELFISH DESIRES OF MAN
contendforthefaith wrote:
Beware of Wolves in sheep clothings. They will use false teaching to feed the selfish desires of Christian or fake Christian who does not love the Truth but chose to have itchy ears to give themselves to false doctrine so that their desires can be met.
Lip Kee's comment:
I totally agree with you. I also do not condone, support or subscribe to teachings that do nothing but cater to man's selfish desires.
The ministry I love so much in New Creation Church is one that points us to Jesus Christ as our Shepherd, in Whom ALL our needs can be met, in Whom there is no want, in Whom we can find the provision, protection and peace we desire, and to Whom we are to give all the glory and honor.
I don't know about you, but I know and admit that I have needs and desires (of which, I am not proud to say so, many are selfish ones).
The way I see it, having needs and desires is not a sin. It is just human nature. For me, the concern is not so much about us having needs and desires, but more about how we deal with our needs and desires.
Personally, I don't see the desires to be healthy and wealthy as sinful lusts. I see them as normal inborn inclinations of every normal human being - in-built mechanisms of the human brain (designed by God, I would dare say) to ensure the fruitfulness and multiplication of the human race on the Earth - remember God's command to man in Genesis 1:28?
If my ancestors did not have the desires for heath and wealth, and if they did not act on those desires by taking the necessary actions to provide for and to protect themselves, I am sure I won't be here typing this blog entry now. :-)
The way I see it, it is only when people value and pursue those earthly needs and desires above God and His Will and Plan for them (to be loved by God, and in response, to love God and others), that those needs and desires become sinful lusts.
Some of us think that we should teach people to deny or control their needs and desires. While others believe that we should point people to Jesus so that they can find ALL fulfillment and contentment in, and give ALL thanks and honor to Him.
I am with the second group.
THE TEACHING OF CORRECT DOCTRINES
contendforthefaith wrote:
Whether you love the pastor anot is not the key issue. The Key issue is the Pastor teaching correct doctrine.
Lip Kee's comment:
I don't have any illusion that the doctrines preached by my pastor in my church are 100% perfect and correct all the time. I know and admit that my church is not a perfect church. I know and admit that my pastor is not a perfect minister of the Word.
But I also know that if not for this imperfect pastor in this imperfect church, I would not have fallen so much in love with Jesus Christ and His Word. That is why I love my pastor and the church he leads so much.
I may decide to go to another church, if you could show me a church in which there is a perfect pastor who preaches perfectly the correct and perfect doctrines all the time. Until then, I think I will stay put, worship joyfully and serve faithfully in New Creation Church under the leadership of Pastor Joseph Prince. :)
contendforthefaith wrote:
Do not deceive yourself. Most prosperity church members like to deceive themselves that prosperity teaching is a good doctrine and that God wants to make Christian get rich. This is FALSE and there are bible proves againist it.
Lip Kee's comment:
I do not know why you label my church as a "prosperity church".
I see my church as a Gospel church, as a Jesus church. In our church, we preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the good news of Jesus Christ, Who is Lord of ALL - the Lord of every world and every realm, including the spiritual and physical/material realms.
Do you regard "prosperity" and "wealth" as unholy words? Do you think that people who talk about "prosperity" and "wealth" in church are ungodly people?
Or do you believe that it is possible for a person to talk about "prosperity" and "wealth" in church and still be Christ-centered, God-glorifying and Holy-Spirit-Honoring person?
I hope you are not offended that I've pray for you, your loved ones, and your church the following prayer (based on 3 John 2): "Beloveds, I pray that you may prosper in all things and be in health, just as your souls prosper".
A REAL MAN OF GOD
contendforthefaith wrote:
If pastor is REAL man of GOD and does not betray Christianity, he should repent and decreas salary at once and not give excuses and blame others and see first. he mentioned that he will see first. It is sad as he does not have a good name now as he have taken 500k for a few yrs, he is a millionaire pastor, unlike Paul and Peter, issiah, who have their head behead, body sawn apart. whether he is real man of GOD, God knows.
Lip Kee's comment:
I don't begrudge a top doctor her million-dollar income, and I don't question her integrity, even though I personally believe that a REAL doctor is supposed be compassionate and must genuinely want to help people even without any monetary compensation.
I don't begrudge a top artist his million dollar paycheck, and I don't cast doubt on his character, even though I believe that a TRUE artist should never paint for the sake of money but only purely for the sake of his love for the arts.
How many times have we seen this happen in the world we are living in: when a man excels in what he loves to do, and is gifted to do, the monetary reward follows.
Michael Jordan did not play basketball because of money. He played because he loved the game of basketball. And because he played well, the money came. David Beckam does not play footaball because of money. He plays football because he is good at it and he enjoys it. And because he excels in the game, the financial rewards follow.
In Pastor Prince, I see a man who started serving God and studying the Bible since he was a teenager and when the church he was serving in was just a small gathering of young believers. I see a TRUE man of God who loves the Lord and loves preaching the Word. I do not see a man who teach and preach because of money. I see a REAL pastor who teaches and preaches because he loves to do so, and because he believes he is called by God to do so.
Personally, I greatly respect and honor Pastor Prince, and I think he deserves more than what he has been paid by the church.
If the church were to decide to stop paying him his salary, I will start to give free-will offering to him, over and above my regular tithe to the church. Yes, I will do so, because I respect and honor the man, and I believe in sowing into his ministry.
But this is purely my personal conviction and I don't insist that others must agree with me on this matter.
Stay rested and blessed. :-)
|
| maic123 wrote on Apr 6, '09, edited on Apr 6, '09 HOW SHOULD THE CHURCH COUNCIL RESPOND TO THE PRESS QUERY? Lip Kee's comment: Please bear in mind that Deacon Matthew Kang made those statements in response to The Straits Times' query on NCC's staff salary. See the full reply here: http://www.newcreation.org.sg/aboutus/media_coverage/NCCreply_to_ST_300309.pdfNow, let's put yourself in Deacon Matthew Kang's position. The Straits Times refers you to the church's annual report and asks you about the church staff who drew an annual salary of between $500k to $550k as reported in the annual report for the financial year ended 31 March 2008. How will you respond to the query? Please bear in mind that you are representing the church, and you are talking to a secular press. Now, what would you say: "No comment"; "No specific reason"; "God told us to give that amount"? Deacon Matthew Kang had to give an explanation. And he had to give an explanation that the secular press and the public at large could understand. Wouldn't you agree? He had to make a statement. A "sensible and reasonable" one (for the secular press and the general public, not just for the church and believers). If you were in his shoe, what kind of a "sensible and reasonable" statement would you make? Maic123 asks - Do you know for sure Dn Kang's reply was due to these reasons? After so many posts and discussions I am a bit lost. What was the official church/ non-secular reason why NCC is paying Pastor Prince a $500k salary? |
| lipkee wrote on Apr 6, '09, edited on Apr 6, '09 Maic123 asked: Do you know for sure Dn Kang's reply was due to these reasons? Lip Kee's comment: I don't know how to answer your question. Because I don't understand it. Did I list out any reasons for Deacon Matthew Kang's reply? What are the "reasons" you are referring to? Kindly elaborate to help me understand your question. Thanks. :-) I know for sure that Deacon Matthew Kang is the representative of the church council, and therefore he is responsible for replying to queries that pertain to the church council. I know for sure Deacon Matthew Kang was the official spokesperson who responded to the query from the Straits Times about the $500k salary. I stated the fact in my comments. And because you said you thought it was wrong for Deacon Matthew Kang to have stated in his reply to the press that Pastor Prince was responsible for the income of the church and that Pastor Prince enriched the church, I asked you how you would have responded otherwise. Hope this helps to re-orientate you back to where our discussion was heading. :-) maic123 wrote: After so many posts and discussions I am a bit lost. What was the official church/ non-secular reason why NCC is paying Pastor Prince a $500k salary? Lip Kee's comment: My advice to you: don't get so distracted and disoriented. Keep your eyes focused on the Lord. Stay rested in Him. Get your bearings back. Know the reasons why you are questioning others. Know your objectives - are you trying to help them because you love them as your fellow siblings in Christ and want the best for them? Are you trying to build up the church? Are you trying to glorify the Lord Jesus Christ? Would you agree with me that it is not a good practice for me to make any statements telling others that they are "wrong" or "incorrect" when I am lost myself? :-) Do you agree with me that we should at least know where we stand, what are the facts, and what real evidences we have, before we make any statement saying that someone is "wrong" or "incorrect"? To get the answer to your query, kindly refer to the official media response in the church website: http://www.newcreation.org.sg/aboutus/media_coverage/media-responses.htm |
| maic123 wrote on Apr 6, '09, edited on Apr 6, '09 Hi,
Let me clarify my question -
I said that if the church attribute the church growth to PP, and therefore he deserves the salary, is wrong, as its God who provided the growth.
You mentioned that Dn Kang responded in such a manner because he is replying to the secular press.
My question then was - are you certain that he responded in such a manner because he is replying to the secular press, or he honestly believes that the growth was due to Pastor Prince?
I am asking after reading many forum posts on the net, I seem to have the impression that many members of NCC seem to attribute their growth, their salvation, their well being, their blessing to Pastor Prince. So much so that the proportion of praise given to the messenger (Pastor Prince) was overwhelmingly more than the giver (God).
So why am I questioning? Because I feel some members give me the impression that they are glorfying Pastor Prince's ability rather than God.
The exact opposite of this a foreign invader comes to a country, and sends the local King a nasty message. The local King was so upset he killed the messenger. We say, hey thats wrong. The person who made the local King upset was the foreign invader's King, who wrote the message. The messenger merely delivered the message.
Just my opinion and two cents. |
| You are entitled to your views. I believe there is nothing more I can and should say on this matter anymore. Stay rested and blessed in Christ. Shalom! :-) |
| And so you are entitled to yours as well. Shalom. |
 | People are not drawn to Pastor Prince per se. They are drawn to the (teaching of) the GRACE OF GOD.
If people speak highly of PP, it would be about the clarity with which he expounds on the grace of God.
I |
 | maybe lipkee, you can enlighten me on why NCC uses the anoiting oil on practically anything to get blessings, pray in tongues for hours to be bless, tithe to wash "dirty" money, anyway the message of Grace than PP preaches isnt that original, Andrew Wommack was preaching this decades ago ... , one thing i can add though, he sure can pull in the crowds with his smooth talking suave ways. |
| "message of Grace than PP preaches isnt that original"
Sure, the message of grace hardly originated with Pastor Prince. Preachers all the way back to Apostle Paul have been preaching grace.
Tithes, tongues, oil, Holy Communion.... each has its place. We believe there is a bliblical basis and benefit to them (a full exposition on which I'd leave to others). Practice according to your faith/belief. None of it is mandatory for salvation or blessing.
"suave and smooth talking"... describes presentation (as opposed to content)
I'd rather describe such presentaion as interesting, funny, easy to understand.
Hardly unwelcome skills/anointing for a preacher. |
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God can use even a fake pastor to heal pple. If a fake pastor on the way to hell shouts: "TRUST GOD for your healing" and People had the Faith, God will still heal the people but the Pastor is still fake(greedy for money/fifthy Lucre) on the way to hell. 